Creating a skills-based workforce in Indiana
An interview with Bill Turner, Executive Director, Skillful Indiana and National Alliance Delivery
Last week, MDLF Executive Director Mike Young spoke with Bill Turner, Executive Director, of Skillful Indiana and National Alliance Delivery, about creating a skills-based workforce in Indiana. They talked about better ways to match employers and potential employees, how Skillful came to Indiana, and some of the unique aspects of Indiana that could give it a chance to lead the nation with a flexible and strong workforce.
You can listen to the recording above, or read the transcript below.
Bill Turner, Executive Director, Skillful Indiana and National Alliance Delivery
Mike Young: Hey, everybody, welcome to yet another Mitch Daniels Leadership Foundation podcast. Today, I'm talking with Bill Turner, who is the executive director of Skillful Indiana. Prior to Skillful, Bill also led education and development efforts at Indianapolis-based Allison Transmission. And we're very happy to have you here today. So, Bill, thanks for joining us now.
Bill Turner: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Mike Young: Before we get started, you've got some experience in the private sector, trying to get the right talent in the right place. And now you're in this nonprofit role. And I was wondering if you could maybe share a little bit more about your background before taking this job and maybe compare and contrast it with what you do now.
Bill Turner: Sure. So I as you mentioned, I was part of the Allison Transmission team for 20 years prior to taking this role. And I had multiple roles at Allison, starting with being a production line supervisor, then moving my way into the training department where I ended up being the director of training and development for all of Allison. So I've learned a little bit about that manufacturing environment from several angles within Allison. And so the work with Allison moved me towards where I am today. At the time, my role helped put me in places where we were trying to work on workforce development for Allison Transmission. How do we find the workers that we needed for the jobs that we had, as well as how do we help develop the ones we have currently employed? And so that put me in different situations where I worked with workforce development organizations across the city and state.
Back when Governor Pence was here, we had the workforce councils. I chaired that council until that disbanded. And then Employ Indy - I was the chair of Employ Indy for a year or so before I changed positions. And I'm still part of that board as a board member, just not the chair. So it allowed me to see workforce development in a broader sense versus just Allison and how workforce development and helping people find jobs is a big issue across the state. And it helped open my eyes to how there are a lot of folks that need help. And Skillful is one way that we're trying to make that happen.
Mike Young: And we're very glad to have you working on that problem. It's a big one, not just for Indiana, but for the entire nation. Could you maybe tell us a little bit about how the program came to Indiana and how Indiana fits into, sort of, the broader national ambitions of this effort?
Bill Turner: The Markle Foundation is the parent organization for the work that I do, and the foundation is out in New York. Skillful is an initiative of the Markle Foundation, and Skillful was brought into existence to help with getting people to focus on skills and competencies where they could, versus degrees or certificates, if they can, for a particular job. Which would help employers find talent and would help talent understand that they have skills and they fit what the employer needs.
And so how we came to Indiana is that Colorado was the first state we launched Skillful in, but Indiana quickly became the second state. And part of the criteria for that is: how involved would the governor be within the state for this to work, how involved would organizations or partnerships around the state be involved in this work in Indiana rose to the top on both of those with the governor in place, as well as the workforce ecosystem. But we also looked at local organizations and educators, as a matter of fact, including Mitch Daniels. Mitch Daniels... I don't know if you knew this, but Mitch Daniels was part of the Markle Foundation work under the Rework America initiative, and he was one of the members involved in that. But he helped form Skillful. And so obviously he had a voice in helping bring Skillful to Indiana.
Mike Young: And those of us who know him have no doubt that there was a meeting where you were looking at which states to go to, and he said, hey, you should really consider Indiana!
Bill Turner: I'm sure that came up.
Mike Young: That's really cool! And some neat history there. And I think it also exemplifies the impact that one person could have in helping guide a new initiative to our state. And could maybe serve as an inspiration or model for people who are listening to this, who are maybe on boards that work across state lines, to be sure to think about Indiana. That's a really cool story.
Bill Turner: Absolutely. One more thing about that. I think the other key to that is that not only did he have a voice in bringing us here, but the work he's doing leading Purdue (especially around the online learning with Purdue), is breaking it down into credentials as well as degrees. That also helps with the workforce element within our state.
Mike Young: Yeah, that's a great point and fits towards what you were saying when you were describing what Skillful is all about: this idea that you may have skills that you don't know, or employers looking for skills that they're not advertising correctly. And if you can match those two things up, you can solve that workforce problem. I'm curious, could you maybe tell us just a little bit about what the differences have been between Indiana and Colorado and how we compare to another state?
Bill Turner: Sure, I think so. Colorado was the first. So obviously there were some growing pains as we rolled out the initiative in Colorado. And so some of the learnings that we have from that state were, we at first, we were trying to be a direct service provider. So we would actually try to work with job seekers, or we would try to work with coaches individually or employers individually.
And we found that that was a little hard to do, because, first of all, who are you? You're Skillful. What does that mean?
And so when we came to Indiana, as I mentioned earlier, we were looking for organizations or initiatives that were connected, so that you could go to that particular body and say, hey, here's what we like to offer. Do you think this would work within your network? And then let that intermediary be the voice of the Skillful work. And so we learned that from Colorado. Colorado has since obviously changed to more of that format. And so it's been working well in both states. So that's part of it.
The other piece that ties to that is the work with career coaches, or career counselors, or career navigators that are helping people find jobs. We also work with employers to try to help them understand how to look for skills and competencies. How can they change maybe their job description or their interviewing questions, etc. And again, we went to a model of training the trainers. So we've trained over 50 people around the state of Indiana that can train a particular employer, work with employers so they can actually sit down with their employer and go over that information with them. So we learned that from Colorado. That may work better in Indiana. The other thing I'll just say as to "why Indiana"... Obviously I live here, but Indiana is different in a good way, in that these networks are strong in Indiana there are a lot of employer networks and a lot of organizational networks, community-based organizations, et cetera, that are talking to each other now.
It's gotten better and better over the years, that communication and that connectivity. So a lot of folks look to Indiana now when I talk about what we're doing here and say, hey, we need to get some of that in our state. That's a great thing to hear. It makes me feel really happy as someone who also lives here. So to hear that people are thinking of us as a role model in some of these ways, it's a pretty, pretty positive place to be.
Mike Young: Yes! Switching gears slightly, could you maybe tell us some of the bigger challenges that you're facing currently?
Bill Turner: Well, obviously, we're not alone, and when I want to mention what our biggest challenges are... So, back when we launched Skillful unemployment numbers were like in the three-point-something's depending on your state. And so our goal was to try to increase the talent pool that employers could find by looking at skills and competencies. Well, now, obviously, Covid has changed that in the sense of: now the unemployed pool is way too large. And so there are a lot of folks unemployed, whether with a degree or without a degree. That pool has grown exponentially. And so the biggest challenge is: how do we help the most people that we can help in the quickest time allowed. And so now we've expanded our work so that we're not going state by state, but actually looking at: how can we help multiple places at one time, being in Colorado and Indiana. So that scale is the biggest thing, along with speed. How do we do it quicker?
So those challenges are in front of us and we're working on it. And I'll just throw in one way that we're doing it. Like I said before, we were doing Skillful Colorado, Skillful Indiana. We were doing some work in Oklahoma. We started doing work in Rhode Island already. But at Markle, we said we need to do a little faster. And so we reformed the Rework America Alliance, where we brought over 30 national partners to the table from training to labor to worker-serving organizations, to corporations. And how can we do this? That's how can we help people get back to employed, or employed at speed, across the country - if we bring the resources together and offer those resources to those communities or states. So that's that's the challenge we saw and how we're trying to address that.
Mike Young: Maybe pertaining to this (or, I guess it could be about anything that you're doing), is there something that you wish policymakers or civic or business leaders knew or understood that maybe they don't yet know about the work that you're doing?
Bill Turner: Sure, so, as you probably know, or your listeners have heard, there have been calls for increased funding for workforce systems, which are underfunded. We think that's a great step, but increasing the funding alone is not going to fix all the things we have in our labor market and our workforce systems. But we kind of need to rethink and redesign workforce policy to create structural incentives. And we want to create more good jobs. And that helps improve the quality of life. And one of the things we have at Skillful, we don't just say you need to go out and do that, but we actually have a policy team, a state policy team that helps with that. And they also do some federal policy work as well. So we think there should be we need to expand past just the funding and get into some of the how-to's, if you will.
Mike Young: Could you maybe just break down, when you say workforce systems, what does that term encompass?
Bill Turner: If you have your employer, let's say, assume it's a chamber. So the chamber has employers in place. They come together with a local organization like (I'm going to use Indianapolis) Indy Chamber, Employ Indy, and maybe a couple of other organizations. Then you have a workforce system within the city of Indianapolis. So how do you help that system, not only give them funding but rethink how they work and how they incentivize people, I should say, employers, to create good jobs or to bring good jobs. I won't say it's like an IEDC kind of thing, of bringing people to the state, but those employers that are here, how do we rethink the way we're doing things by offering the type of training, etc.
Mike Young: Gotcha. And would it be fair to characterize that as maybe a little bit more like bottom-up or a little bit more grassroots approach than what would otherwise be sort of a formal IEDC or a top-down direction?
Bill Turner: I think so. It all depends on the policy, but yeah, I think so. Part of that is what can we do right here, right now with the folks on the ground and then go up or could be an overarching policy that we say, OK, this is the policy, how do we dig into that and then go deeper.
Mike Young: Maybe our last question here, but, just looking back on the work that you've done at Alison, the work that you're doing now at Skillful... We've got probably several listeners on this who are thinking, hey, I'd like to work on this project or I'm really passionate about workforce education or employment or economic development. What's the best way for me as an individual to have an impact on a space like this?
Bill Turner: One of the things that we try to do - Skillful, the alliance, everything we're doing - is more of a systems change. So we're trying to change the system where our employers look for talent, how they search for talent. They may bring onboard new talent or even move talent within the organization. Let's look at the skills and competencies you need for that. We also work with, like I said earlier, worker services organizations or organizations, even like an Ivy Tech, that have career counselors working with them, to train their counselors or their career coaches on how to look for the skills in the person sitting across the table from them, how to help that person articulate those skills and bring to the table so they can match up to the jobs.
Or, if you're in school, how do you how do you follow a path of education that not only gets you to a good job, but also follows the path of what you like to do and what you're good at versus just going after the dollar? And so for individuals, it's about spreading that word across wherever you are. So, employer work is good for anybody, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you own a small business, whether you run a large corporation or business, it's all about skills and competencies and how you think about how you hire people and how you discuss things with people.
And if you are connected in any way to the worker serving organizations like a Goodwill or Urban League or whatever the case may be, how do you bring how you get them connected to the work that we're doing so that we can help their coaches or their organization with their hiring practices? In this particular work, it doesn't matter what you do, there's a way for you to fit in if you want to. If you want to fit in.
Mike Young: That's a really positive note to end on. I want to thank you again for making time to do this. I bet our audience has learned a lot, and I hope that we can involve you in more stuff in the future. I think it's been really educational for me to talk to you, and I'm sure it is for our listeners as well. So thanks again!
Bill Turner: Thank you. Appreciate it!
